Interviewed By Maaike Wijnstra (Dutchies)

Link to the original full interview text (in Dutch).

Name: Liselotte Roosen
Age: 34
Living in: Trondheim, Norway
Since: 28 September 2014

Personal life

How did you end up in Norway?
At the beginning of 2014 I lost my job as a psychologist due to pneumonia (caused by burnout) and I decided it was time for something new; I didn't want to work as a psychologist anymore. In August 2014 I got two job offers at once: one as a teacher of psychology at a women's university in Riyadh and the other as a PhD candidate in environmental psychology (climate change and art) at Trondheim's university in Norway. After much deliberation (it was a difficult decision), eventually I opted for Norway, because I was hoping that having a PhD would lead to even more job opportunities in the future.

Why did you decide to move to Norway? (and what was the deciding factor)
I knew for a fact that I didn't want to stay in The Netherlands... ever. The Netherlands lacks space, nature and mountains. I never really felt at home there. There are too many people, too much red tape (due to the multitude of rules and regulations) and there is too much pollution. The weather in the Netherlands is also not that great, although Norway is not much better in that respect. The winters here are very long, cold and dark. This was the main reason I was not sure about the move at first. But eventually I decided to go, mainly because temporary nature of the job, which can also result in a PhD. The contract was for three years. This suits me quite well because I like change (and after this I can always decide to go to Riyadh if I would really want to). So I went mainly for the job and not so much for the country, even though almost everything here is better than in the Netherlands, but that is true for almost every other country in my view.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of Norway compared to The Netherlands?
The advantages are that there is plenty of space due to the low population density, the mountains and the (relatively clean and abundant) nature. The disadvantages are the long, cold, dark winters, but that is not just compared to the Netherlands, but compared to all the countries I lived in. Also I find it relatively difficult to make friends here and to find like-minded people. That is tough, because now more than ever I feel a strong need to connect with others who have similar views, although the blog helps a bit in that respect.

Do you feel like there is more understanding for your lifestyle in Norway than in the Netherlands?
Not necessarily... although it is difficult to compare because I mostly got serious with moneyless living after I moved to Norway. However, it does seem to me that people in the Netherlands are generally more aware of environmental issues than the people here. Maybe that's because there is so little nature left in the Netherlands (less than 12%) and therefore people might feel more inclined to protect what is left and to get environmentally engaged. Of course it also helps if you have traveled somewhat to other places. Otherwise you may not realize that anything is missing.

Life without money

How did you come across the no-money lifestyle?
I came up with the idea after I had started dumpster diving almost daily, before I came to Norway. I liked it so much that I kept going after I moved here and got a little bit obsessed with it, because I saw so much good food being thrown away daily. Next I started to apply the idea of 'living on leftovers' to more and more aspects of my life. This is how eventually I ended up living 100% moneyless (=without spending anything). It wasn't until I started my blog that I heard about others who were also living the moneyless lifestyle; most notably Daniel Suelo and Mark Boyle. I hope to meet them someday.

How did you get started living moneyless? What are the first practical changes you made?
The first step on my journey was dumpster diving and it was inspired by environmental activist Rob Greenfield. I had been following him for about two years via Facebook and I was very inspired by his lifestyle, because he is always following his passions in everything he does and that makes him free, in contrast to most people, who believe they have to work to make a living and they have to own a home. This idea more or less gets spoon-fed to us from an early age and I think that that (in part) leads many people to give up on their dreams and even forget about them altogether.

When did you decide to take it to the next level and really want to live without money?
At the end of November 2014 I decided to take up the challenge to live entirely without spending money (other than rent), because I saw that it was possible. Shortly after that (at the start of the summer in 2015) I figured I could also try to find free housing, Around August 2015 I found a family who kindly offered me their spare room. I lived there for a few months and after about three months I moved to a farm where I got my own little cabin, with a bathroom and kitchen in the nearby barn.

What are some of the first things you realized you did not really need?
It started with the realization that I did not need to buy anything, because everything that is sold in supermarkets can also be found in the dumpsters. I have found absolutely everything there, including cleaning products and hygiene products. Even (functioning) rechargeable batteries and a charger! But the challenge has also made me question my need for all of these products. It made me ask myself the question whether I could live without, or what I would do if I would somehow run out or no longer have access to certain things. And then it turns out that most of us really don't need so much. For example, I discovered that we don't really need laundry detergent to wash our clothes. Also most hygiene products are completely unnecessary and even harmful for the body and for the environment. And recently I also came to the conclusion that we don't really need the food that is sold in supermarkets, because much more nutritious foods can be found in nature. And of course the process of finding out we don't need as much as we think we do doesn't limit itself to products: for example I also know now that I don't really need a job - and perhaps that is the most liberating discovery of all.

Can you describe what the core of moneyless living is to you?
In the beginning it was mostly about no longer wanting to contribute to the destruction of the earth via the products that I was buying. For example, if I buy a pineapple in Norway, then I know that it had to travel a long way and that I am therefore contributing to the pollution that comes with that.Or if I buy new clothes, then I know that I probably indirectly support the exploitation of workers, perhaps even child labor, and again a lot of pollution. If I buy non-organic produce I am contributing to the extinction of bees, which would mean that many plant species would disappear. I no longer wanted to carry that heavy burden and I also no longer wanted to do so much research every time I wanted to buy something to make sure that it was a sustainable choice. So when I saw that there was a way out of this destructive cycle, because so much food (and other products) gets wasted on a daily basis, I went for it. And of course another great benefit was that I could save 100% of my income to build an eco-home or to start an eco-village in the future.
While I was living moneyless I discovered that there are many more advantages to this lifestyle, which are all the result of developing a new perspective on the world. Money promotes an exchange mentality (a calculated mindset of doing each other favors to get something in return). If you live moneyless then you can slowly let go of that mindset and then you notice how much impact it has on everything you do. That mindset has made its way into almost everything now with most people.

What is your ultimate goal?
For me the goal is total freedom and my mission on a larger scale is bringing awareness to the destruction that we are all contributing to. I hope that I can inspire people to consider making changes in their lifestyle, or at least show them that it is possible to choose another way. Many people consider the status quo as their only option. Before I got started on my journey, I also thought there was no way out. And that is a very depressing and discouraging view of life, especially if you want to give your life meaning and contribute something of value to the earth (instead of just the economy).

You get a lot of questions about how you are living without money, but you are still using facilities that other people pay for. What is your opinion on this?
It is true that I am still using certain facilities that have been paid for by others. For example, I am still using internet and water/electricity, which is paid for by the owners of the farm where I live. In addition I make use of roads and other public structures. However, for me it is irrelevant that these were paid for; it does not make my moneyless life somehow less moneyless. The reason is that when people make this comment, they often mean that they think you are some kind of parasite: leaning on others for support without really contributing anything of your own.
But the purpose of my lifestyle is not to get everything for free and make my life easier. The purpose is also not to do everything by myself without the help of others and be completely independent (although I would probably have the knowledge to survive without anyone’s help for quite a while). The goal and purpose of my lifestyle is to free myself from the structures and constructs that are destructive to the earth – and unfortunately it appears that money is one of those.
If everyone would live the way I do, then of course these comments would not matter anymore, because then everybody would live for free. People would contribute to society because they believe what they are doing to be important, instead of just to make money. Unfortunately my lifestyle is not that common yet that people instantly know what it is like and what it entails. Many people also have wrong assumptions about it and incorrect associations with it.
People often seem to fear that if there would be no money, there would be more people who will no longer contribute to society in any way and therefore take advantage of other people’s hard work. I think this will not be the case. Of course there are always people who will want to lean on others and abuse the system, with or without money. But I think that in a moneyless society this will happen less. That’s because in a world without money, there are a lot more natural (and direct) consequences for inefficient behavior. For example, if your community is in a potential flooding area because it lies below sea level (such as parts of the Netherlands), then it is important for the group to make sure that the dikes and dams remain strong enough. Everyone will be motivated to contribute to this, because it is a common interest and everyone will be equally affected when things go wrong. If everyone would just rely on others to do the work, and there were only a few people left doing everything, then eventually they would get fed up and start a community elsewhere, leaving those lazy people to fend for themselves. It is the same with food: everyone will need to go get their own food and look after the food forests, because that is what sustains you. The links between between actions and consequences are much more straightforward and it is much more likely that there are natural consequences for unhelpful or selfish behavior. It is much fairer that way. In a society that uses money there is also a lot of hidden laziness: people who simply pay others so that they don’t have to do anything constructive, and even people who do have a job, but a job that only causes damage.

At the moment you have a job and you are saving all your money. You want to quit working towards the end of 2017. I am curious:
1. What will you do with the money? Three years of salary is quite a lot of money.
Yes, that is correct :)  I am not sure what I will do yet exactly... Originally I wanted to save up so that I would be able to buy a block of land and start an eco-community, but because of my new lifestyle and new perspectives on life I am not so sure now. If I buy something, then I will be locked into costs again (and once again connected to money) and that is the very thing I wanted to give up and get rid of. So probably I will keep it available as a plan B, but first I will see what life will be like living the nomadic lifestyle, living completely on what nature provides.

2. What will you do with your time?
I would love to take up a nomadic lifestyle for a while, traveling to many different places and learning all about plants along the way (living off the land). For my next project (hopefully starting next year) I am planning to travel from Norway to Spain, either on foot or on horseback. I am already searching for a suitable (free) horse. Horses are given away here on a regular basis, because it is very expensive to keep them. Most of the ones that are given away are retired horses from the sport's industry, or very young and inexperienced horses. I can keep a horse for free at the farm where I live if I find a suitable horse.
I may travel to more countries as well. I would love to complete the silk route one day, also preferably on horseback. It seems like an epic journey! And while traveling I can give (free) workshops and lectures to further spread the word about alternative lifestyles and moneyless living. This is what I would like to devote the rest of my life to: to the well-being of the earth and to promoting and inspiring a more environmentally friendly lifestyle.

What is most difficult about your lifestyle at the moment? Are there any issues, concerns or obstacles you've come across?
Strangely enough I can't really think of any difficulties of this lifestyle, other than the growing fear that humanity is destroying too much nature (and will continue to do so), which threatens my way of life and that of many other life forms (including the lives of everyone who is contributing to it)... I think many other beings must be feeling this also. There is less and less undisturbed space and increasingly less room for nature to thrive and flourish. Yet it is nature that gives life to us all. Not the supermarket, not the companies and certainly not the state or government.
But that is the global perspective. Personally I have especially noticed that my life has become a lot simpler and easier and that I am a happier person and feel free. However, I can imagine that if I would get very sick (or if I would already have some serious disease) it could get a little more difficult. Therefore I am learning about natural and herbal medicine and I am trying to look after myself as best as I can. Also, I think that the average lifestyle is much more devastating to health than mine, so even that would not be a reason to give up on my dream. In any case I would do all I can to continue living this way, no matter what happens.

Our discussion on Facebook triggered quite a few reactions when you say you live your life in this way. What are the reactions of the people around you? And in the beginning?
At first most people around me thought I had lost my mind :) but fortunately this changed very quickly. When it turned out that everything I planned to do was possible, my friends and family were very pleasantly surprised and also proud of me that I made it happen (they didn't believe it was possible). On Facebook there are fortunately also a lot of positive responses, but for some people living moneyless is still too big a step. I do empathize with those people on some level, because for me the process was also gradual, so it is understandable when other people (especially if they haven't followed the blog from the beginning) don't always understand how you could do and see things differently than the usual way.

What would you like to offer the world? What changes would you like to manifest?
I would like to see us (humanity) interact with nature in a different way. That we once again consider ourselves to be one with the ecosystem we live in and that we become more aware of the resources we are using. And that once again we start to take responsibility again for the consequences of our choices for example with the kinds of purchases we make and the companies we support. I would like to see humans regain some of their self-sustainability, because that will make the world more sustainable as well. I'd like to see humanity focus more on long-term effects and solutions, instead of clutching onto the usual "throw-away" mentality. That we will once again explore how each of us can add real value to the earth, instead of just in terms of financial contributions. And that the interest of the earth is once again our main concern instead of just self-interest.
I think that moneyless living is a very suitable way to achieve all of these effects, because if you see nature as your most important and primary resource (which of course it is), then you will automatically appreciate it more and be driven to protect it.

For you, living moneyless equals freedom. But isn't it true that many people believe that the exact opposite is true? That they can use money to 'buy' their freedom, so that they can afford doing the things they really want to do or so that they can retire early?
That is true; that is the current trend and belief. And I used to believe this too. But now I see that it is actually a trap; a trap to keep people in the system. Of course there is a lot you can do if you have money, but I can do the same things without money (especially if you value experiences rather than things). And also: what is the price? If I do the things I want to do without spending money, then I don't need to earn money first and so I actually have the time to do those things. With a full-time job and high costs of living you may have money to spend, but you don't have the time anymore to do all the things you may want to do. Then you can only do things that really matter to you in weekends and during holidays. That means your life is suddenly substantially shorter! Now I can do the things that matter to me whenever I want to. Not just at some time in the future when I am retired, but now! I can even dedicate my life to a cause of my choosing.
Also, I can retire right now if I wanted to. I don't have to save up money for years, because money is not a necessity for me anymore. I don't need to stay in a job that doesn't really give me a sense of fulfillment and that doesn't give me the feeling I am contributing anything valuable. Without the need for money, nobody would do those jobs anymore. The world would be a very different place. We wouldn't have to do work that pollutes the earth. Instead we could quit working and dedicate our lives to looking after the planet and do all other things that really matter.

Working hard to eventually retire is not freedom. It is delayed freedom. You never know when it will happen. If the rules change (for example if the state pension age goes up), then it may take longer than expected, and it's not even in your hands. Someone who is free, is not bound by rules. Whatever the rules may be, I can always retire whenever I want.

That is freedom.

You point out that living without money to you means living without stress. How does that work? Because I personally (and I think many others also) feel a lot of stress when I have no money. When I don't know what I will be eating tomorrow and when I have no money to buy anything, then the pressure is very high to find a way to make money. Then it would be really comforting to be able to go to the shop to buy something.
Yes! You hit the nail on the head :) If you don't have any money, it gives you stress because we have not learned to take care of ourselves. This also makes it very stressful if you lose your job (or if the possibility exists). But what if you can just take care of yourself and you know where you can get food? What if you know that you can always rely on nature for your next meal? Then you don't have stress anymore, because you know you are always safe. You can always take care of yourself, also when the government or the system lets you down. And the system lets people down all the time. It happens every day.
If you know how to live without money, then it won't matter if you lose your job. If the supermarkets don't have any food in stock because of some environmental or political crisis, it also doesn't matter. You no longer depend on the supermarket.

Do you still visit the Netherlands sometimes? And how do you travel without money?
I have visited the Netherlands briefly last year to attend a conference (it was a work visit so the university covered the travel costs), but I was glad it was only for a few days. I noticed that the air pollution was bothering me a lot, especially on the first day. I think that happened because I was no longer used to it. When we are exposed to it all the time, we don't notice it so much anymore. This is another danger of what is happening to the earth right now: changes are gradual and so we get used to it and that makes it seem less bad than it actually is.
By the way, after I complete my job next year I will aim to travel solely by bike, (hitch)hiking, or on horseback.

Tips

Can you write a short step-by-step guide for the average consumer like me, to save money and to spend less?
1. Dumpster diving is a very good start. This is how I got started as well. (Foraging is an alternative if you don't have dumpsters nearby).
2. After this you can work on finding free alternatives for all your expenses, step by step. Every time you spend money, you can ask yourself: Do I really need this? And if so: How can I fulfill this need without spending money? And then it is a matter of trial and error; experimenting; getting creative.
3. Every alternative you come up with can also be tested for the sustainability factor. If it is not more sustainable than the ordinary way of doing things, then it may not be very valuable. It may not give you that lasting sense of accomplishment and fulfillment. You will see that if you choose to do things that are really good for the earth, they will also be good for you!

Finally, here are some links with more information, with practical tips to get started with the moneyless lifestyle:
More about the Stop-Shopping-Challenge, which started everything
More about Dumpster diving
More about Free Housing
More about the Moneyless Mindset
More about freedom (living free)

(NL) Interview door Maaike Wijnstra (Dutchies)

Hierbij het volledige interview met Maaike Wijnstra, waarvan een samenvatting is gepubliceerd op haar blog.

For the English version, click here.

Naam: Liselotte Roosen
Leeftijd: 34
Woonplaats: Trondheim, Noorwegen
Sinds: 28 September 2014

Persoonlijk

Hoe ben je terecht gekomen in Noorwegen? Bijvoorbeeld de eerste keer dat je er kwam.
Begin 2014 raakte ik mijn baan als psycholoog kwijt wegens longontsteking door burnout en besloot ik iets nieuws te gaan doen met mijn leven. Ik wilde niet meer als psycholoog aan de slag. In augustus 2014 kreeg ik twee banen tegelijk aangeboden: één als docent psychologie aan de vrouwenuniversiteit van Riyad en de andere als PhD kandidaat environmental psychology (climate change & art) in Trondheim, Noorwegen. Na lang nadenken en afwegen (het was een moeilijke keuze) werd het uiteindelijk Noorwegen, omdat ik hoopte met een PhD daarna ook weer meer kansen te hebben.

Waarom heb je besloten naar Noorwegen te verhuizen? (en wat gaf voor jou de doorslag)
Ik wist sowieso dat ik niet in Nederland wilde blijven. In Nederland mis ik de ruimte, de natuur en de bergen. Er zijn teveel mensen, er is teveel vervuiling en er zijn teveel regels voor alles (red tape). En het weer vind ik ook al niet geweldig, hoewel ik daarvoor ook niet naar Noorwegen had hoeven gaan. De winters zijn hier erg lang, koud en donker. Dus daardoor heb ik nog wel even getwijfeld. Maar ik ging hier vooral naartoe voor de (tijdelijke) baan (een contract van 3 jaar). Tijdelijk past goed bij mij want ik houd van verandering (dus daarna kan ik altijd nog naar Riyad als ik dat echt zou willen). Ik ging dus vooral voor de baan en niet zozeer voor het land, hoewel bijna alles beter is dan in Nederland, maar dat geldt voor bijna elk land in mijn optiek.

Wat vindt je de voor- en nadelen van Noorwegen ten opzichte van Nederland?
De voordelen zijn de ruimte wegens de lage bevolkingsdichtheid, de bergen en de (relatief schone) natuur. De nadelen zijn lange, koude, donkere winters, maar dat is niet alleen in vergelijking met Nederland, maar met alle landen waar ik gewoond heb. Ook vind ik het relatief moeilijk om echt in contact te komen met mensen hier en vriendschappen te sluiten. Ik heb hier ook moeite met het vinden van gelijkgestemden. Dat is wel eens lastig, maar mijn blog helpt hier wel bij.

Heb je het idee dat er daar meer begrip is voor jouw levensstijl dan in NL?
Nee, dat denk ik niet... hoewel ik het moeilijk kan vergelijken omdat ik mijn nieuwe levensstijl (leven zonder geld) pas echt heb doorgezet hier in Noorwegen. Wel lijkt het dat de mensen in Nederland over het algemeen zich meer bewust zijn van milieuproblematiek dan hier. Misschien is dat juist doordat er zo weinig natuur over is in Nederland (minder dan 12%) en mensen het daardoor meer willen beschermen. Uiteraard helpt het ook als mensen gereisd hebben naar andere landen met meer natuur en daardoor weten wat ze missen.

Leven zonder geld

Hoe kwam je in aanraking met de no money leefstijl?
Ik kwam op het idee doordat ik was begonnen met dumpster diving, voordat ik naar Noorwegen kwam. Dat beviel zo goed, dat ik ermee door bleef gaan en behoorlijk fanatiek werd. Vervolgens begon ik het idee van ‘leven van overschotten’ op steeds meer aspecten van mijn leven toe te passen. Zo kwam ik uiteindelijk terecht op 100% zonder uitgaven. Pas toen ik mijn blog gestart had, hoorde ik via lezers van mijn blog over anderen die ook zo leefden: met name Daniel Suelo en Mark Boyle. Ik hoop hen nog ooit te mogen ontmoeten.

Op welke manier ben je er mee begonnen? / Wat zijn de eerste praktische aanpassingen die je hebt gedaan?
De eerste stap was het dumpster diven en die stap was geinspireerd door Rob Greenfield. Ik volgde hem al zo’n twee jaar via Facebook en vond zijn levensstijl heel inspirerend omdat hij in alles zijn passies volgt en daardoor vrij is, in tegenstelling tot de gemiddelde mens die denkt dat hij/zij moet werken voor de kost en een huis moet hebben. Dit idee wordt ons min of meer opgelegd van jongs af aan en ik denk dat dat er (mede) toe leidt dat veel mensen hun echte dromen al snel opgeven en zelfs vergeten.

Wanneer besloot je het naar het volgende niveau te tillen en echt zonder geld te willen leven?
Eind november 2014 besloot ik de uitdaging aan te gaan om volledig zonder uitgaven te leven (met uitzondering van huur), omdat ik zag dat het kon. En kort daarop (begin zomer 2015) bedacht ik dat ik ook kon proberen om gratis woonruimte te vinden. Rond augustus 2015 vond ik een gezin waar ik gratis bij mocht komen wonen. En vanaf 1 october 2015 leefde ik volledig zonder uitgaven. Na 3 maanden verhuisde ik naar een boerderij waar ik mijn eigen cabin heb, met een badkamer en keuken naast de paardenstallen.

Wat zijn de eerste dingen waarvan je je realiseerde dat je die niet nodig had?
Het begon ermee dat ik me realiseerde dat ik dingen niet hoef te kopen. Alles wat te koop is in supermarkten is ook te vinden in de dumpsters. Ook schoonmaakmiddelen en hygieneproducten. Zelfs (werkende) oplaadbare batterijen en opladers heb ik gevonden. Maar de challenge heeft mij ook de vraag doen stellen of ik zonder zou kunnen, of wat ik zou doen als ik zonder zou komen te zitten. En dan blijkt eigenlijk dat we maar heel weinig dingen echt nodig hebben. Zo ontdekte ik dat men wasmiddel niet nodig heeft om was schoon te krijgen. Ook de meeste hygiene producten zijn volledig overbodig en zelfs schadelijk voor het lichaam en het milieu. En recent ben ik tot de conclusie gekomen dat we ook voedsel van de supermarkten niet echt nodig hebben en dat er veel voedzamer eten te vinden is in de vrije natuur. En uiteraard beperkt het zich niet tot produkten: ik weet nu bijvoorbeeld ook dat ik geen baan nodig heb – en dat is misschien wel het meest bevrijdende.

Kun je kort omschrijven wat voor jou de kern is van leven zonder geld?
In het begin ging het mij er vooral om dat ik niet meer wilde bijdragen aan verwoesting van de aarde door mijn aankoopgedrag. Bijvoorbeeld, als ik een ananas koop in Noorwegen, dan weet ik dat deze lang heeft moeten reizen en dat ik dus bijdraag aan de vervuiling die daarmee gepaard gaat. Of als ik kleding koop, dan ondersteun ik daarmee waarschijnlijk lage lonen, uitbuiting van mensen, misschien zelfs kinderarbeid en wederom een hele hoop vervuiling. Als ik niet-biologische produkten koop, dan weet ik dat ik daarmee bijdraag aan het uitsterven van bijen, waardoor een heleboel plantensoorten zullen verdwijnen. Ik wilde dat niet langer op mijn geweten hebben. En omdat ik zag dat er zoveel voedsel (en andere produkten) verspild wordt, zag ik hoe ik eindelijk uit die destructieve cyclus kon stappen. Daarnaast was het ook mooi meegenomen dat ik geld kon sparen om in de toekomst een ecohuis te bouwen of een ecodorp te kunnen starten.
Toen ik eenmaal geldloos leefde merkte ik dat het nog véél meer voordelen had, die allemaal voortkomen uit het ontwikkelen van een nieuwe kijk op de wereld. Geld promoot een voor-wat-hoort-wat mentaliteit. Als je zonder geld leeft (zonder uitgaven) dan kun je daar langzaamaan van loskomen en dan merk je hoeveel impact dat heeft op alles wat je doet. Want die mindset is bij veel mensen in bijna alles doorgedrongen.

Wat is je uiteindelijke doel?
Voor mijzelf is het doel ultieme vrijheid en mijn missie op grotere schaal is het aandacht geven aan de verwoesting waar we allemaal aan bijdragen. Hopelijk kan ik mensen inspireren om veranderingen in levensstijl te overwegen, of hen in elk geval laten zien dat er alternatieven mogelijk zijn. Veel mensen zien het leven zoals het is namelijk als de enige mogelijkheid. Ik dacht dat zelf ook voordat ik aan mijn projecten begon. En dat is heel deprimerend en ontmoedigend, vooral als je iets voor de aarde wil doen en je leven betekenis wil geven.

Je krijgt veel vragen over hoe je leeft zonder geld, maar toch gebruik maakt van faciliteiten waar andere mensen voor betalen. Wat is daarop je visie?
Het klopt dat ik nog steeds gebruik maak van bepaalde faciliteiten die door anderen zijn betaald. Ik gebruik bijvoorbeeld internet en water/electriciteit wat bekostigd wordt door de eigenaren van de boerderij waar ik nu woon. Verder maak ik gebruik van wegen en andere openbare structuren. Voor mij is het echter niet relevant dat hiervoor betaald is; dat maakt mijn geldloze bestaan niet minder geldloos. Mensen bedoelen namelijk vaak dat als je niet betaald en toch gebruikt maakt van dingen waarvoor betaald is, dat je een soort uitbuiter bent; iemand die leunt op anderen.
Het doel van mijn levenswijze is niet om alles voor niets te krijgen en mijn leven gemakkelijk te maken. Het doel is ook niet om alles alleen te doen of volledig onafhankelijk te worden (al zou ik genoeg kennis hebben om zonder hulp van anderen te overleven). Het doel is om los te komen van structuren en constructies die destructief zijn voor de aarde – en helaas is gebleken dat geld één van die dingen is.
Als iedereen zo zou leven als ik, dan zou dit punt er natuurlijk niet toe doen, want dan zou iedereen alles gratis doen. Mensen zouden hun steentje bijdragen aan de gemeenschap omdat ze belang hechten aan bepaalde zaken in plaats van puur om geld te verdienen. Helaas is mijn levensstijl echter nog niet zo algemeen dat mensen direct begrijpen wat het inhoudt. Veel mensen hebben er ook bepaalde (onjuiste) veronderstellingen en associaties bij.
Mensen lijken vaak angstig dat als er geen geld zou zijn, dat er dan veel meer mensen zouden zijn die hun steentje niet meer bijdragen en dus het harde werk van anderen uitbuiten. Ik denk dat dat niet zo is. Natuurlijk zullen er altijd mensen zijn die op anderen leunen en het systeem uitbuiten, met of zonder geld. Maar ik denk dat dat er juist minder zullen zijn als geld geen rol meer speelt. Dan zijn er namelijk veel meer natuurlijke (en directe) consequenties voor ineffectief gedrag. Bijvoorbeeld, als jouw leefgemeenschap in een gebied woont dat kan overstromen omdat het onder de zeespiegel ligt, dan moet je er als groep voor zorgen dat de dijken sterk genoeg blijven. Iedereen is dan gemotiveerd om daar aan bij te dragen, want het is een gemeenschappelijk belang. Als iedereen het aan anderen zou overlaten en er op den duur nog maar een paar mensen overblijven die het werk doen, dan zouden die daar op den duur ook genoeg van krijgen en zich gewoon elders vestigen. Er zijn dus veel eerder natuurlijke consequenties voor onbehulpzaam of egoistisch gedrag. Dat is veel eerlijker. In een samenleving met geld is er ook nog eens veel verborgen luiheid: mensen die simpelweg anderen betalen zodat ze zelf niks constructiefs hoeven te doen.

Momenteel heb je een baan en zet je al je geld opzij. Je wilt stoppen met werken eind 2017. Ben ik nieuwsgierig:
1.    Wat ga je met dat geld doen? Drie jaar salaris is toch een flink bedrag :)
Dat klopt :) Ik weet nog niet precies wat ik ga doen... Oorspronkelijk wilde ik het opsparen om daarna een stuk land te kopen om een eco-community te starten, maar door mijn nieuwe levensstijl en nieuwe inzichten ben ik daar niet meer zo zeker van. Als ik namelijk iets koop, dan zit ik weer vast aan kosten (en aan geld) en daar wilde ik juist van loskomen. Dus waarschijnlijk houd ik het achter de hand als een plan B maar ga ik eerst kijken hoe ik als nomade kan leven, volledig van de natuur.

2.    Wat ga je dan met je tijd doen?
Ik zou heel graag een tijdje als een nomade gaan leven, reizend naar veel verschillende plekken en onderweg leren over (en leven van) eetbare planten. Voor mijn volgende project ben ik van plan om van Noorwegen naar Spanje te reizen, ofwel te voet of te paard. Ik ben momenteel al op zoek naar een geschikt (gratis) paard. Paarden worden hier regelmatig gratis weggegeven, omdat het erg duur is om ze te onderhouden. De meeste paarden die worden weggegeven zijn gepensioneerde paarden uit de sport, of erg jonge en onervaren paarden. Ik heb in elk geval de mogelijkheid om hier een paard te stallen als ik een geschikte vind.
Ik zou ook graag naar andere landen reizen. Het lijkt mij bijvoorbeeld geweldig om een keer de zijderoute te doen. Dat lijkt me een geweldige ervaring! En onderweg kan ik dan gratis workshops en lezingen geven over alternatieve levensstijlen en geldloos leven. Dat is ook waar ik de rest van mijn leven graag aan zou willen wijden: het welzijn van de aarde en aan het promoten van een milieuvriendelijke levensstijl.

Wat is voor jou momenteel het lastigste aan deze levensstijl? Zijn er dingen waar je tegen aan loopt?
Gek genoeg is er niet echt iets wat ik kan bedenken wat lastig is aan deze levensstijl, behalve dan de groeiende angst dat de mensheid teveel natuur verwoest (en blijft verwoesten), wat mijn levensstijl en dat van vele andere levensvormen met mij, in steeds grotere mate bedreigt... zo moeten andere wezens zich denk ik ook voelen. Er blijft steeds minder ruimte over en steeds minder natuur. En het is de natuur die ons allemaal leven verschaft. Niet de supermarkt en niet de bedrijven en zeker al niet de staat/overheid.
Maar wat mij persoonlijk betreft, heb ik vooral gemerkt dat mijn leven zoveel simpeler en makkelijker geworden is en dat ik veel gelukkiger ben en me vrijer voel. Ik kan mij wel voorstellen dat als ik bijvoorbeeld ziek zou worden (of al een ziekte zou hebben) het misschien lastiger zou kunnen zijn. Maar ik verdiep me in elk geval in plantengeneeskunde en probeer zo goed mogelijk voor mijn lichaam te zorgen. Daarbij denk ik dat de doorsnee levensstijl veel slechter voor de gezondheid is dan de mijne, dus ook dat zou denk ik voor mij geen reden zijn om mijn droom op te geven. Ik zal er in elk geval alles aan doen om het voort te kunnen zetten, wat er ook gebeurt.

We zagen al op Facebook dat er best wat reacties loskomen wanneer jij aangeeft op deze manier te leven. Wat zijn de reacties uit je omgeving? En in het begin?
In het begin dachten de meesten dat ik mijn verstand verloren had :) maar dit veranderde gelukkig al snel. Toen bleek dat het allemaal mogelijk was wat ik van plan was, waren mijn vrienden en ouders vooral heel blijverrast en trots dat het gelukt was. Op Facebook zijn er gelukkig ook wel vaak positieve reacties, maar voor sommige mensen is het nog een stap te ver. Dat begrijp ik ergens ook wel, want voor mij is het ook een geleidelijk proces geweest, dus het is logisch als anderen (vooral als ze niet vanaf het begin hebben meegelezen) niet altijd begrijpen hoe je de dingen anders zou kunnen doen en interpreteren dan de gangbare manier.

Wat wil je zelf overdragen?
Ik zou heel graag zien dat wij (de mensheid) op een andere manier met de natuur omgaan. Dat we ons weer één voelen met het ecosysteem waarin we leven en dat we ons meer bewust worden van de resources waar we gebruik van maken. En ook dat we weer meer verantwoordelijkheid gaan nemen voor de gevolgen van ons eigen handelen, bijvoorbeeld door de aankopen die we doen. Ik zou graag zien dat mensen weer meer zelfvoorzienend worden, want dat zou de duurzaamheid op aarde ten goede komen. Ik zou graag zien dat we weer meer gaan denken aan de lange termijn in plaats van de gebruikelijke wegwerp-mindset. Dat we weer meer gaan kijken naar hoe we echt waardevol kunnen bijdragen aan de aarde, in plaats van alleen maar kijken naar financiele contributies. En dat dus het belang van de aarde weer voorop komt te staan in plaats van eigenbelang.
Ik denk dat geldloos leven een heel geschikte weg is om dit allemaal te bereiken. Als je namelijk de natuur weer als belangrijkste en primaire resource ziet (wat het ook is), dan ga je de natuur ook automatisch veel meer waarderen en beschermen.

Voor jou staat leven zonder geld gelijk aan vrijheid. Maar is het niet zo dat er juist veel mensen zijn die dat andersom zien? Dat ze met geld hun vrijheid ‘kopen’, doordat ze zich de dingen kunnen veroorloven die ze graag willen doen of bijvoorbeeld vroeg met pensioen kunnen?
Dat klopt inderdaad, en vroeger dacht ik dit ook. Maar nu zie ik dat het vooral een valkuil is; een truc om mensen aan het werk te houden. Natuurlijk kan je veel dingen doen als je geld hebt, maar ik kan diezelfde dingen ook zonder geld doen (vooral als het gaat om ervaringen). En daarnaast: wat is de prijs? Als ik diezelfde dingen zonder geld doe, dan hoef ik niet eerst te werken om geld te verdienen om het te kunnen bekostigen en dan heb ik dus ook de tijd om deze dingen daadwerkelijk uit te voeren. Met een full-time baan en hoge vaste lasten heb ik er misschien geld voor, maar geen tijd meer om alles te doen wat ik zou willen doen. Dan kun je alleen de dingen doen die je echt wilt in weekends en vakanties. Dat betekent dus dat je leven ineens een stuk korter wordt. Nu kan ik de dingen die ik belangrijk vind doen wanneer ik maar wil. Niet ooit in de verre toekomst als ik met pensioen ben, maar nu! Ik kan mijn hele leven er aan wijden.
Ik kan bijvoorbeeld nu direct met pensioen gaan als ik dat zou willen. Ik hoef daar niet jaren voor te sparen, want geld is geen noodzaak meer voor mij. Ik hoef ook niet jarenlang een baan aan te houden waar ik geen voldoening uit haal en waar ik voor mijn gevoel geen toegevoegde waarde mee bijdraag. Als niemand meer zou geloven dat geld een noodzaak was, dan zou niemand meer werk doen wat oninspirerend was. De wereld zou er dan heel anders uit zien!
Dan hoeven we geen werk meer te doen wat bijdraagt aan vervuiling van de aarde. In plaats daarvan kunnen we stoppen met werken en ons full-time inzetten voor het behoud van de natuur en andere dingen die we werkelijk belangrijk vinden.
Werken om met pensioen te kunnen is geen vrijheid. Het is uitgestelde vrijheid. En je weet nooit wanneer het precies zal komen. Als de regels weer eens veranderen (bijv. pensioengerechtigde leeftijd weer eens omhoog), dan duurt het misschien weer langer dan gepland, en je hebt het niet eens zelf in de hand. Iemand die vrij is, is niet gebonden aan regels. Wat de regels ook zijn, ik kan nog altijd met pensioen wanneer ik dat wil.
Dat is vrijheid.

Je geeft aan dat een leven zonder geld voor jou een leven zonder stress betekent. Hoe werkt dat? Want ik persoonlijk (en met mij waarschijnlijk de rest van de wereld) ga juist stressen als we géén geld hebben. Als ik niet weet wat ik ga eten morgen en geen geld heb om iets te kopen dan is de druk toch juist heel hoog om iets te vinden of te regelen? Dan is het juist relaxt om naar de winkel te kunnen gaan om iets te kopen.
Yes! Je slaat de spijker op zijn  kop :) Als je geen geld hebt, dan is het stress, want we hebben niet geleerd om voor onszelf te zorgen. Daardoor is het ook heel stressvol als je mogelijk je baan kwijt gaat raken. Maar wat als je gewoon voor jezelf kunt zorgen en je weet waar je eten vandaan kunt halen? Wat als je weet dat je altijd op de natuur terug kunt vallen? Dan heb je nooit meer stress, want je weet dat je altijd veilig bent. Je kunt altijd voor jezelf zorgen, ook als de staat of het systeem het laat afweten. En de staat laat het heel vaak afweten.
Als je weet hoe je zonder geld kunt leven, dan maakt het niet uit als je je baan kwijtraakt. Zelfs als de supermarkten niks meer op voorraad hebben wegens een crisis, dan maakt dat ook niks uit, want je bent niet meer afhankelijk van de supermarkt.

Ga je nog wel eens naar Nederland? En hoe reis je dan zonder geld?
Ik ben vorig jaar nog eens in Nederland geweest voor een conferentie (de universiteit betaalde mijn reis), maar ik was blij dat het maar voor een paar dagen was. Ik merkte dat ik last kreeg van mijn longen door de vervuilde lucht. Ik denk dat dat was omdat ik het niet meer gewend was. Als je er woont dan merk je het op den duur niet meer. Dat is ook het gevaar van wat we met de natuur doen: we wennen eraan en daardoor lijkt het minder erg dan het is.
Overigens, als ik klaar ben met mijn PhD volgend jaar ben ik van plan nog steeds veel te reizen, maar alleen nog maar (of op z’n minst voornamelijk) lopend, liftend, op de fiets of te paard.

Tips

Kun je een heel beknopt stappenplan maken voor de gemiddelde consumer zoals ik, om meer te besparen / zuiniger te leven? Echt superkort en beknopt de belangrijkste tips om toe te passen in het dagelijks leven.
1.    Dumpster diven is een heel goed begin. Zo is het voor mij ook begonnen. (Een alternatief is 'foragen' (=eten uit de natuur).
2.    Daarna kun je stap voor stap gratis alternatieven vinden voor al je kostenposten. Elke keer dat je geld uitgeeft kun je je afvragen: hoe zou ik in deze behoefte kunnen voorzien zonder geld uit te geven? En dan experimenteren en uitproberen.
3.    Elk alternatief kun je vervolgens ook testen aan de duurzaamheidsfactor. Als het niet duurzamer is dan de doorsnee manier, dan is het misschien ook niet heel waardevol. Je zult zien dat als je de dingen doet die goed zijn voor de aarde, dat dat ook goed is voor jou!

Tot slot hier nog wat links voor meer informatie, met praktische tips over hoe je aan de slag kunt gaan:
Meer over de Stop-Shopping-Challenge, waar alles mee begon:
Meer over Dumpster diving:
Meer over gratis woonruimte:
Meer over de Moneyless Mindset:
Meer over Leven in vrijheid:

Video: A Day In The Life...

Here is a short video in which I detail the Moneyless Lifestyle, recorded here in the city of Trondheim, for our local e-newspaper Adressavisen.



Lever fett - uten en krone - adressa.no

A big thanks to Frank Lervik for his professional interviewing and editing! He did a fine job :)

** Some notes:
1- Food from dumpsters is never for donation unless people know where it comes from. The food that I pick up directly from the stores is for donation.
2- I have become very picky with food from dumpsters. Unfortunately we filmed on the most difficult day for diving (Wednesday) so I could not show the best stuff (and the containers were quite dirty). Normally I only go to the stores that put all the food in bags and/or I only take things that are wrapped in plastic packaging (for obvious reasons - hygiene). While diving I also take note whether the food has touched the sides of the dumpster or could have been in contact with any contaminants (spoiled milk, broken eggs, meat, fish...) and if that is the case, I leave it behind. So don't let this video give you the wrong impression about diving! I hope to make another video where I can show a much cleaner way to dive.
3- Kantarell = chanterelle
4- A photo of my room is now uploaded to my Free Housing blogpost

Interview with Liselotte by Dörte Giebel

Last week I was interviewed by Dörte Giebel. The interview was posted here: (part 1) and here (part 2). Below is the full interview. Thank you Dörte, for these awesome questions!

1) How old are you and where did you grow up?
I am 33 and grew up in Middelburg, the Netherlands. I lived there until I was about 20 years old. Around that time I started to travel more and subsequently I lived in a few different countries. At the moment I am living in Norway and I have no intention of moving back to the Netherlands in the future. The overpopulation, the lack of wildlife, the destruction of nature, the excessive pollution and the fact that only 12% of the country is dedicated to nature, make it a very unappealing place for me. And although these issues are global, the effects seem to be more apparent in the Netherlands than in most other countries I have visited or lived in. Yet that does make the Netherlands a great reminder of the importance of awareness. It helps to keep me motivated to do my part to preserve what is left of our beautiful earth.

Me and my horse Arizona

2) You introduce yourself as "working as a PhD Candidate in Environmental Psychology at NTNU in Trondheim (Norwegian University of Science and Technology). The topic is Climate Change and Art and explores ways in which art can promote pro-environmental behaviors and attitudes." Do you feel like an artist yourself?

I believe that everyone is an artist to some degree. I don’t really believe that art should possess certain elusive qualities to be called art. I think if you have a message and you want to challenge certain concepts, which may encourage people to reflect on what they are doing or on how the world works, then that is what is at the core of ‘art’. The manner in which you choose to convey that message will then be the determinant of whether or not it will be perceived as art by others. But to me, art is mostly about the message; it is about encouraging critical reflection and challenging ‘the way things are’. It is about looking at the world from a new perspective; through a different lens. That is also the main focus of my blog; to challenge or at least question certain ideas that seem to be widely recognized as normal, or even ‘the norm’; if not through our attitudes and beliefs, then at least through our collective actions.

One of my paintings :-)

3) Is blogging about your challenges and adventures a special form of art?

According to my own definition of art, my blog would indeed classify as a special form of art, although I know that many artists (and non-artists) would probably disagree with me. But to me, the purpose of the blog is more important than its definition.

The main purposes of the blog are (in no particular order): 1. To remind myself daily of the things that are important to me; so I use it as a self-motivator. 2. To uncover my truth and find ways to live my truth within society as it is right now. 3. To be a role model to others and (hopefully) inspire others to stand up for what they believe in and to live their truth. 4. To question things that society may consider ‘normal’ and to show alternative ways of living. 5. To create an online network or community of like-minded people where we can exchange ideas about doing things differently, and where we can support and encourage each other along the way.

4) On your About-page you write "However, society as we know it (and as we have created it) provides little time and opportunity for connecting and tuning in with the earth. This is why I feel that many people, including myself until recently, have lost their way." How would you describe this sense of being lost? 

At many times in my life I have felt uneasy about certain things, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on what it was or what I could do about it. For example, the concept of ‘work’ bothers me, but not the idea of contribution. I see contribution as a basic human need, but the way this idea has been translated into society does not always seem helpful. And yet, I didn’t see a way out until recently (although I still have a job now, but I see now that there are other ways). I didn’t know what I could do about it or how I could do things differently. So in that sense, I was lost. And that resulted in that I unwillingly accepted and even contributed to the status quo, simply because I didn’t know another way.

I also always felt that the world was too crowded with too many people and not enough room for nature, other animals and plants. But I did not know what to do about it, other than making the decision not to have any children of my own. I did have a dream to build an ecohome one day with a vegetable garden, where I could live a self-sustainable lifestyle. But I was buying into the belief that I couldn’t do it right away; I felt like I needed a lot of money to be able to do that. I needed money before I could make a real difference. And even though I was doing things like saving water by having shorter showers and eating a mostly plant-based diet, it didn’t feel like I was doing enough. It didn’t feel like I was contributing anything on a larger scale, beyond myself. At least an ecohome would be something more permanent. It could change the structure of society. People could live there after me. Anything else I did seemed fleeting; more like treating the symptoms instead of fixing the structural causes. I felt like I could do so much more, but I didn’t know what it was or where to start.

Three happy stray dogs in Cuba that I wanted to adopt

5) How did this state of being affect your motivation?

That uneasy feeling (knowing I could do more but not knowing what to do) kept me very unmotivated to actually do much for the environment for a long time, even though I was convinced that something should be done! But my thought processes were very constricting most of the time. “There is nothing I can do”. “They make it impossible”. “It is too difficult”. “Why would I make such an effort for only small results if no one else seems to be doing anything anyway? What is the point?” This is how it felt at times. It felt impossible to do anything meaningful and the world seemed to be heading for total destruction and chaos. And it seemed there was nothing I could do about it.

6) Did something special happen in your life to shift your perception?

The turning point for me came when I learned about dumpster diving. It showed me how easy it was to make a big difference in a very short time: Not only did it have immediate positive effects on the environment (preventing good quality food from ending up in landfills) and on my own life (saving a lot of money), but also on the lives of others, because I could share my finds with them. I suddenly felt like the most generous person in the world. Suddenly, my life was no longer just about me: it was about truly caring for others and truly caring for the earth. My life had a clear purpose and I knew what to do to make a big difference that was positive on all levels. My capacity for empathy expanded and I felt more alive than I had felt for a long time.

Caring for the environment no longer felt restricting or pointless; it became meaningful, fun and rewarding. I felt expanded and inspired; which fueled the motivation to keep going but also to share this experience with others, who were perhaps also feeling held back at times by a strong sense of defeat or hopelessness.

One of my biggest finds behind a store in the Netherlands

Of course there are still moments when I feel hopeless and overwhelmed by all the sadness in the world. But I always remind myself at those times that whether or not humans will evolve beyond their current state as a species is not the point. I do not define my success in terms of getting other people to think like me. Success for me is living authentically. I want to do what is right for me, and stand up for what I believe in. This is also the only thing I would like to encourage and inspire in others: To do what matters to you, without letting society (or any person) get in your way! So whatever it is that is important to you, do it. Don’t wait for society’s approval.

7) Did your experiences as a psychologist / therapist over the last ten years influence your view or your decisions?

It certainly gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about myself and about other people. But I could never find a lasting sense of fulfillment from my work as a therapist. I always felt like I was just scratching the surface, treating the symptoms and yet never managing to get to the root cause of problems. At times I even felt like I had to come up with strategies for people just to make their lives ‘more manageable’, while the way we are expected to live our lives is completely unnatural. No wonder that so many people struggle.

We have to work almost every day, often doing jobs we would not necessarily choose or enjoy (but we all have to do ‘something’). We have to earn a lot of money in our lifetime just so that we can have a place to live and get fed (so apparently these are not basic human rights). We are taught to look outside ourselves for security, approval, love and acceptance, for the sake of our survival. In fact, most of us are made into very dependent creatures. After all, have you learned to survive in the wilderness? We never really learn to look after ourselves. Why is that, and why do we accept this as normal?

What if you could learn to survive in the wilderness and find a way to live a fulfilling, meaningful life, without chasing the illusions of modern societies… No job, no unnecessary possessions… Would you be willing to give up the comforts and securities you think you have now, in exchange for lasting freedom? I know I would, in a heartbeat.

This was my office when I was working as a psychologist

8) What does "to claim back my life" mean to you exactly? Can you describe that a little bit more in detail?

It means making my own decisions and not the decisions that are silently expected of me. But it also means becoming more and more independent; finding out how to live as self-sufficiently as possible. This means learning about all areas of life: what to eat to stay healthy, how to catch and filter rainwater, how to build a shelter, how to grow food, which wild plants are edible, and so on.

9) How did you get started with your moneyless lifestyle and how did the food donations come about? Did you start up your own charity group or did they already exist? And do they have a website?

I started my moneyless challenge after I had already been diving fairly regularly in Norway for several months. At the start of the challenge I went dumpster diving almost every night, and often at more than one store (I had about 2-3 favorites). I was only taking food home for myself at the time, and sometimes for a few other people as well. It was compelling and exciting to go every night because I never knew what I was going to find, plus I was a little worried that I would ‘run out’ of certain things, like laundry detergent and cleaning products; these are normally a bit harder to find. But this worry turned out to be unfounded, because after a few months of diving almost daily, I had so much stock of non-food products (such as cleaning products and soaps) and food products with a relatively longer shelf life (such as cooking oils and herbs) that they would probably last me at least a year. Then I felt secure enough to dive less often.

But the vast amounts of food I had found every time also had an impact on me. It was hard to let so much good food go to waste each day, as I knew that it would be there, but I also knew I could never eat it all by myself. So I started to think about ways to redistribute the food to other people. And in the process I learned about Folkekjøkken, an organization that was already doing something similar, but they were picking up food directly from the shops (they have a Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trondheim-folkekj%C3%B8kken-Mat-ikke-makta/129282655877?fref=ts). They used the food to cook for the community on Tuesdays and Saturdays, and sometimes also for special events. Anyone could join in and eat for free. Any leftover food was donated to the Free Fridge (a fridge accessible to anyone to take as much food as they needed).

So I decided to help out and pick up food three times a week for one of the cookings (on Saturdays). But after a while these cookings got cancelled due to a lack of committed volunteers in the weekends and I had to find other ways to donate the food. So I started giving food away on a local website and before I knew it I had quite a few contacts (mostly single moms and immigrant families) that I could donate the food to. These people were having a very tough time to make ends meet and they told me the free food really helped them get by. It made me feel so grateful to be a part of this and to be able to make such a big difference in these people’s lives.

In addition to donating to families in need directly, we also installed two more Free Fridges around Trondheim, where we can deliver any excess food. One of the free fridges is my responsibility now, so I make sure to fill it up regularly.

The Free Fridge at NTNU Dragvoll after a big delivery

10) How does the idea of the free fridges work? How many people know and use this already? Are there private people donating food as well or “only” your organization?

The free fridges have their own Facebook page and are set up in public buildings across the city. Anyone is allowed to donate food there and anyone is allowed to take what they need. Whenever a big delivery is made, a photo of the content of the fridge is posted on the appropriate Facebook page so that people know when to go and what they can find. People find out about it through word of mouth and through likes and shares of others on Facebook.

Here are their respective websites:

www.facebook.com/FreeFridgeDragvoll (this is the fridge I manage)

https://www.facebook.com/GratismatkjoleskapetArne?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/groups/863877990347715/

11) I am a bit curious about your daily life. Maybe you can describe a "normal" week, your Mondays, your weekends: For example: How many hours (per day / per week / per month) you spend with Dumpster Diving and organizing your moneyless life? In a way it is a kind of "work", isn't it? The time a farmer spends in growing his own food is the time others have to work to gain the money to buy the food - and this time you invest to "save" the food. :-)

My weeks are pretty busy :-) I pick up food at two shops every day now, even on most Sundays. I go by bike, because I don’t have a car. I use a bike trailer to transport all the food. Normally I pick up around 40 kilos of food a day, but sometimes up to 100 kilos. A trip to the shops takes about an hour or up to three hours if they have a lot and I have to do several rounds. Now that it is summer, there is especially a lot to pick up, probably because a lot of people are on holiday. One week I biked 150 kilometers just for food pickups, transporting at least 240 kilos of food (but probably much more)!

The food pickups and the distribution of the food take up most of my evenings, which means that I don’t have much time or energy to go dumpster diving nowadays. Only on Sundays I sometimes get a day off when the shop doesn’t have anything that day. On most weeks, I still manage to dive once or twice a week though.

And of course during the day I work on my PhD, although I do consider the blog and the diving/donating to be a part of this as well, considering the topic of my PhD. I am even hoping to create a research project around this at some stage in the future.

Even though I don’t have much free time, I find that being able to give so much good quality food away to people who really need it and helping the environment in the process, is a very rewarding experience. It always makes me feel incredibly grateful that I can see firsthand how my actions enrich people’s lives. This is definitely the fuel that keeps me going.

Me getting back from a pick-up on a rainy day

12) And what some of my blog readers might ask (not me actually :-) ): How do you spend time with friends or family without spending money? No more cinema, pubs or concerts? And if so, do you miss anything? 

Luckily, I have never been that interested in concerts, pubs or the cinema, so I don’t really miss anything. I prefer an interesting conversation with a friend, going for walks in nature, or just spending time together in any place, no matter where or what the activity is. To me, the connection is more important than the activity. What also helps is that I don’t drink alcohol (or use any other substances), so that makes my moneyless project a lot easier too.

So I can’t think of anything I miss… On the contrary: I have felt richer and life has seemed much more abundant since I went moneyless. The biggest bonus has been living from gratitude. With money out of my life, I have been focusing on much more valuable things. I have become more creative in how I give to others, including to my friends and family. This has also made me more thoughtful and aware of their likes and needs. And when I see free stuff being advertised or find something special in a dumpster that any of my friends would enjoy, I pick it up for them. The smiles and joy it brings are truly heart-warming.

At Lamington National Park

13) I guess that you already found like-minded people in Trondheim, right? Is there a growing community of Dumpster Divers in Trondheim (or in other cities of Norway) or do you always dive alone? 

Yes, there are many divers in Trondheim; more than in The Netherlands, where I first started diving. There is even a diving community for Trondheim on Facebook and there are many people who dive on a regular basis. But this doesn’t mean that all the food necessarily gets rescued. Even when I used to dive daily, I rarely encountered any other divers. I think I only met other divers on 5-10 occasions (in about 3 months of daily diving). So even with many active divers, there was still a lot of food that never got saved.

Because I am diving very often, I prefer to dive alone or with just one other person. This is because I don’t want to draw too much attention to the diving, because people could get upset and complain to the store, and the store managers then may decide to lock the dumpster. That would not be the first time this happens; many of the dumpsters here are locked. I guess another reason is that some people make a mess, they are very noisy when they are diving, or they dive during opening hours. Those are definitely some things to avoid if possible.

14) Do you see or believe in a trend or even in a movement in Norway (in Europe, in the world) concerning minimalism, simple life and sustainability that is growing? 

Yes! I have noticed a growing interest around the world in self-sustainable living and tiny homes. Also, more people seem to want to simplify their lives, even though they may not know where to start. But I think a lot of people are starting to realize that money isn’t the be-all and end-all of life and that there is a lot more to life than just having a job and buying a house. Life has a lot more to offer in terms of meaning and purpose.

Of course these movements have always existed and were even once the norm, but I do believe that many people are starting to get tired of the way society works now. There seems to be a ‘collective burnout’ happening, where people are no longer willing or able to do their job, so that they have to re-prioritize their life goals. And many people are waking up to the fact that having wealth or money as a top priority means selling your life away and ‘saving it for later’, only to discover there is no later. I don’t want that to happen to me. I don’t want to have any regrets when my life is about to end. So my priority is doing what matters now. And what matters to me now is being truly alive; being conscious, being present and being aware of the choices and contributions that I make. I want to contribute to a happy, healthy earth and to living in harmony and balance with other creatures as much as possible, in everything I do. And I know that I am still learning. It is a continuous process of uncovering blind spots. Layer, after layer and step by step. But I have come a long way already and will continue to find new ways of living an even more earth-friendly lifestyle..

15) What is a helpful first step towards a sustainable change in one’s life? Do you have a special tip for someone who wants to make such changes in his / her life but feels captured in his / her circumstances?

If you feel inspired to make changes, start today! Don’t wait until some future date, because the future never comes. Tomorrow will always be tomorrow. The only time to change is now. And it is possible to make some changes today!

Just start small. Write down some things you would like to change and brainstorm ways to make it fun and rewarding for yourself. Make it exciting. Choose something that doesn’t make you feel restricted, but enriches your life in some way (and/or the lives of others). This is why dumpster diving was such a great place for me to start: it did not involve ‘giving something up’. Instead, I gained a lot (lots of good food and discovering the joy of giving!). I felt like the most generous person alive! Giving away expensive cakes, pies, bread and other baked goods. Expensive types of meat, cheese and delicious vegetables. All kinds of stuff. It brought me a lot of joy. So find something that you might enjoy, and take a friend with you at first if it seems scary. That makes it a lot easier and more fun. I wrote a guide on dumpster diving that might help you get started, if you want to try it out (see http://liselotteroosen.blogspot.no/2015/07/dumpster-diving-101.html)

Seven cakes / pies and some bread.
This is only a fraction of what was thrown out that day (behind a store in the Netherlands)

And if you decide you also want to donate food, always practice food safety and donate responsibly. That means only taking meat and dairy products when they are still cold, storing them in the fridge as soon as possible and until they get picked up. And always give the person who picks up the food at least the following information:

1.       Where the food came from

2.       In what condition you found it and how you have stored it so far

3.       Tell them to smell and check the food for safety after opening the package

4.       Tell them consumption is at their own risk, because the food may be expired

5.       When in doubt, they should throw it away.

If you don’t know that much about food safety or how to check whether food is still edible, then it definitely helps to know a few people who know more. They can help you get started. And of course, the internet can also provide a lot of information. After experimenting with foods for a while, you get a feel for when foods are still edible and when they are not.

If you don’t really want to start with dumpster diving, but rather with something else, like saving water or eating less meat, just treat it as a challenge first! This really helps to get motivated. First you become aware of your current habits, and then you set yourself a goal. For example: no meat for 6 weeks. It is a fun way to test yourself! If you make it challenging enough, you will see that you will get creative very quickly in finding solutions to things you previously saw as ‘obstacles’.

Swimming in natural water sources is a great way to keep clean without showering

16) What's next? What comes after your PhD?

I have always been drawn to the nomad lifestyle, so I would love to experience life like that for a while, and just travel the world in a very basic way. For example by doing a ‘moneyless’ world tour, perhaps on horseback or walking, where I find places to stay in exchange for doing some work.  Many years ago, I had the plan to travel to Santiago de Compostela on horseback, just for the experience, while enjoying the journey. I would still really like to do that. But I would have to come up with a better plan first; including something I can do along the way to benefit others and benefit the earth. Any ideas are very welcome! :-)

Visiting the beach in the Netherlands with a friend's horse

I also still have the dream of building an off-the-grid ecohome. So after I complete my PhD, I would love to purchase some land in a country with a mild climate, where I am allowed to build my own house and preferably don’t pay any land tax (which I think is a strange concept anyway).

In the future, I would also like to continue to inspire others and be a resource for people who want to simplify their lives and rearrange their priorities in life, perhaps as a coach or trainer. Another exciting plan that I would like to develop further is to lead retreats that guide people back to the core of their being. I would like to start doing that soon if I find the time.

And of course the blog will also continue to exist, even after I get my PhD. I will update it regularly with tips, new ideas or information about what is coming next.